Elizabeth Hubbard is DEAD TO ME (2025)

Per Alan Locher:

It is with great sadness that I share the news that the legendary Elizabeth Hubbard passed away over the weekend. You will be missed dear, Liz. Rest in peace! 💐

Liz's son Jeremy shared the news earlier today. Keep him, their family and Martha Byrne in your thoughts and prayers.

Loved her as Lucinda. My sister-in-law got me into ATWT in the late 80s. I had watched the ABC soaps since the 1970s, but had gradually grown bored with OLTL. ATWT at the time had better storylines. Elizabeth Hubbard always delivered.

I couldn't stand Martha Byrne, though. Or more accurately, the character of Lily. Soaps had an awful tendency back then to make a teen girl character the focus to the exclusion of too many other storylines. Lily on ATWT, Cricket on Y&R, Julie on AMC. I hated that tendency. I only liked Lily when she was sparring with Lucinda, and even though Lucinda was usually wrong I rooted for her because Elizabeth Hubbard was so damn good.

R10 It's definitely her at 24 seconds into the Ordinary People clip, she's peppered throughout the scene.

At one point you can clearly hear her voice telling Mary "you look as beau-ti-ful, as ev-er".

I recall seeing Liz in OP with her character's husband going out one night with Beth and Calvin.

You hear that recognizable knowing chuckle she often gave.

She was also in the ballet movie, Center Stage.

I’ve always been curious about her son, Jeremy. He and I are around the same age. Judging from his post maybe he was reared abroad or in Canada… does anyone know?

[quote] She was also in the ballet movie, Center Stage.

Maybe I'm confusing this with Turning Point.

[quote]Did the Emmy panel hate her?

Year ago, I remember reading on a soap board that her scene partners weren't always thrilled with the ad-libbing and such. Don't know if it's true or not, but that could be a reason.

Her Althea was fantastic.

She had great chemistry with Gerald Gordon, who played Dr. Nick Bellini.

Her adlibbing was so fucking crazy. A remnant of a less professional time. Sometimes I was amused, most of the time I empathized with her scene partners who had to put on a fixed expression and wait for her to finish.

On the more amusing side, she fucked most of her male co-stars and was decidedly age agnostic. She was the first older woman to many of her early 20s actors and had affairs with married men in their 60s. She also sport-fucked her gay castmates because she thought it was funny.

[quote] Did the Emmy panel hate her?

No, but she was almost never in the kind of life and death stories that actors like Viki Sleestak and Kim Zimmer were in.

Her cancer story really should have gotten a win - but then again, so should the scenes re Lily finding out she was adopted.

sport-fucked her gay co-stars?

please explain in more (but not all) detail.

Please. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Betsy marrying Nick Costello, and Casey Peretti marrying Beatrice.

I can't deal with Lucinda fucking Holden and Hal Munson.

[quote] I can't deal with Lucinda fucking Holden and Hal Munson.

Hal Munson was allergic to fish.

[quote]Nick Bellini was an early imprint on me as the type of guy I wanted.

Me too!! Nick was sex on a stick.

My favorite Liz moment at ATWT was her (assumed) ad lib at Lisa's whatever number wedding, to Earl Mitchell:

*turns to James Stenbeck"

"She's wearing white!!??!??"

[quote]I can't deal with Lucinda fucking Holden and Hal Munson.

Pussycat!

[quote] I can't deal with Lucinda fucking Holden and Hal Munson.

At the same time?

Kink-aaay!

[quote]Has the Drew Dixon troll showed up yet?

Yes, he has, Spicen is all over this thread.

Did her Q score ever exceed DL fave Kathy Glass's? Dear Liz is nowhere to be found among the top 5 in May 1976, courtesy of Daytime TV Magazine.

Q score, Week of May 24-28, 1976, Actress, Daypart:

1. Kathy Glass

2. Susan Seaforth Hayes

3. Jacqueline Courtney

4. Eileen Fulton

5. Denise Alexander

Spicen and his 5 (at least) socks are in overdrive.

FF and ignore this mentally ill fuckwit.

[quote] But I also think she was pregnant, and replaced by Virginia Vestoff, who was stiff compared to Liz

When the original Retro TV repeats were happening various Twitter/soap posters called Vestoff "Redthea." No one seemed to enjoy her performance much. (Probably in part because Althea became a simpering fool and an amnesiac.)

Ambrose! Jane!

MATTHEW!

[quote]"She's wearing white!!??!??"

Bless you for the laugh. I wish I could share it with my mom.

From Scott Bryce:

"She was astonishing. Liz RIP. Love you woman."

When I worked on the show, the network dictated that, during the summer months, every episode open with youth… or Lucinda. Because her character was so popular with young viewers.

To the question posed earlier about why she didn’t break out of soaps. Listen, she lived in the country in CT. And in those days, lead soap roles paid well. She wasn’t getting rich but it afforded her a stable, upper middle class life. And she lived in a beautiful town (where Sondheim lived). LA is a whole different animal.

Not many actors have financial security anywhere approaching what she had. What, go to LA and pick up episodes in prime time? Unless you land a network series, it’s not much to live on.

Worked with her on ATWT. Excellent actress but not a nice person.

What was it Bette Davis said? “You should never say bad things about the dead, only good…we’ll, Elizabeth Hubbard is dead. Good.”

Years ago, 1970 to be exact, I was an apprentice at the Ogunquit Playhouse on the Straw Hat Circuit and Elizabeth Hubbard came through in a fine production of BLITHE SPIRIT. She starred as the ghostly yet sexy Elvira opposite Noel Harrison as Charles Condomine, the role his father created on the West End and in the film. She was lovely. Ruth, the second wife, was played by Angela Thornton, who I think was also a soap star for awhile.

And Mary Orr, who wrote the original story The Wisdom of Eve, that ALL ABOUT EVE was based upon, played the small role of Mrs. Bradman, but was wooed for interviews than the other stars because the musical APPLAUSE had recently opened.

I watched ATWT in the 1980s. I wasn't too crazy about her weird line readings and obviously relaxed attitude toward delivering them as written (it seemed unprofessional too me), but she sure was entertaining and clearly had talent. I enjoyed her on the show.

Speaking of Eileen Fulton, way upthread, who could never get her lines right, either: I always remember how she pronounced Lucinda's last name as "Walch." It's like when people mispronounce the word "Welsh" as "Welch"; probably some regionalism that, in a professional actress, seems ignorant not to train yourself out of.

There was a poster on the Midwestern threads who who said they were part of the Emmy selection board and they personally disliked reviewing Hubbard's work, not because she wasn't great, but because the way she reconstructed all her lines made viewing tough:

"Darling, I won't be going to Iva Syder's party tonight. No, I WON'T be going to Iva Snyder's party tonight. Because, darling. I can't face it. I CAN'T face it."

[quote] Her character was so popular with young viewers.

I remember reading something about a guy who taught soap opera in his media academic class, and his students all loved Lucinda and Margo the best. They wanted tough women with experience and confidence, and the shows gave them everything but....

As to why she stayed on soaps, she did come and go a few times, but for a single woman with a young child, it probably made sense to do soaps. Which is also why we had Beverlee McKinsey and Victoria Wyndham in soaps. All working mothers.

I think the parallel would be that she was often ATWT's Shelley Long - she would fight like hell over a simple script. She drove people crazy but I guess she felt it was worth the blood spilled to show on screen.

She was a great actor and a class act, but I can understand if the ad-libbing caused problems. Soaps are about speed. If one actor is ad-libbing and it's causing other actors to miss their cues, that slows everything down.

Personally, I think all of Hubbard's "extra" brought life to character and enhanced what was on the page.

I love Wikipedia (from the character bio:) Soon after they married, during Lucinda's recovery, she noticed that Brain would not consummate their marriage.

Sharp as a tack, that one.

I always remembered her birthday in December.

ATWT and GL just about saved my life, so I remember those shows (and those years) fondly.

So many in ATWT's cast in particular are all the same age. We've already lost Kathy Hays and Liz....I know Eileen and Don are close in age, as well, and Kathleen Widdoes isn't too far behind. And I still cannot believe we lost Lisa Brown so early. So sad.

I think the lack of awards related to her habit of upstaging other actors.

She was always finding business to do. Often it involved her glasses… moving them around on her face, scanning the lenses for spots, punching them in the air…

You couldn’t take your eyes off her. But that sometimes came at the expense of other actors. Voters being other actors, I suspect they thought her too selfish.

Hubbard had an Emmy long before Lucci did, lol.

I always loved the Maggie/Althea friendship on TD. Liz didn't play tricks when acting with either Bethel Leslie or Lydia Bruce. You bought this friendship between 2 professional women.

Althea was a totally different character and she played it that way. Lucinda was a creation and a character, so I think Hubbard played her big and bold like a 1940s movie star.

I think Althea and Lucinda would have despised each other.

Awww. Fuck! I’m so sorry to hear this. I had no idea she was sick.

RIP, dear lady. ❤️

I remember reading that in addition to adlibbing as Lucinda, she also often worked hard to get under-five actors (like the young man who played Matthew the butler) to go over their five lines so that they’d be paid more and maybe even see their part beefed up.

Like the adlibbing itself, I’m sure that sometimes proved difficult for production, but to me that just one more reason to love Liz Hubbard.

R149 Variety, THR and Deadline report on those deaths.

The NYT used to cover soap actors' deaths, especially the NY actors, but they haven't for a while. Never mind that Hubbard was on Broadway numerous times as well.....They're busy finding random people who have been dead for years and are thus "overlooked."

I remember contacting the NYT when McKinsey died and they hadn't mentioned her death - they eventually did run an obit.

But they did not for Harding Lemay. Who really, of all people, should have had one.

Harding Lemay should have had an NYT obit. I recall the discussion here at the time.

But I also recall that the death was never officially confirmed, Forget how we even found out about it, but it was never confrimed by a family member or a funeral home, which caused problems for the NYT needing confirmation before they can run the obit.

[quote]He’s, she got an obit.

I didn’t know Kathy Hays was related to Anne He He.

Oh Good. Digest reported Kin Shriner's tweet on Hubbard.

What happened to real reporting?

that floating heads don't bother me too much nor does the ad on the back cover

it's the pages in between that matter. I flipped through that special Y&R issue and they didn't do many if any interviews with actors from the Brooks/Foster run of the show; Hallick, Bauer, Lynde, McCarthy, Hasselhoff, Houghton...it's more like 40 years of Y&R that are covered. not 50.

I'm not the person you're addressing, but I will try a response. When people come into your lives every day, 250 times a year, you develop a familiarity with them that doesn't happen in other entertainment forms (primetime TV, Cable TV, and movies).

And if we're being honest, most soap fans don't even know who Scott Bryce is, they know who Craig Montgomery is. Soap actors, often, just become the characters to the fans. It really wasn't until the soap mags started that the audience even thought of their favorite soap characters as anyone but the character.

There has been a somewhat disturbing trend as of late, thanks to social media, where fans can't separate the actor from the character. Especially when a soap actor's politics or personal beliefs don't align with the fans. But there is that familiarity. It's always been there. Irna Philips called her actors by their character names. My Grandma used to tell the story of how my Great Grandma once wrote to Bob Hughes to let him know that Lisa was cheating on him.

Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce.

Okay. R168 should have exploded by now.

The hilarious thing about R168, of course, is that it's one of Spicen's many multiple personalities. The Jean Randolph of his personas, if you will. That persona only shows up occasionally to scold soap fans for taking things so seriously (a persona/voice no doubt sharpened over at whatever board it was banned from).

We more often see the mentally ill repetitive posts about snatches being eaten, actresses' toilet habits, and names that are fat. So yeah, R168 is not to be taken seriously, not even for a millisecond.

[quote] she also often worked hard to get under-five actors (like the young man who played Matthew the butler) to go over their five lines so that they’d be paid more

Ruth Warrick was also known to do that.

[quote] Hunt Block is also gay as a goose, so....um.....

He always pinged to me, and I've never heard of him being married to a woman. He's 70, and I hadn't seen him in much of anything since Angelina Jolie's Salt when he played the president. I'm curious as to what he looks like now.

This is one of my favorite scenes ever

Luke: I don't need anything

Lucinda: That's the saddest thing in the world

"The role of Lucinda Walsh is now being played by Marj Dusay."

Oh how I would've killed to hear that voiceover announcement.

[quote]She did everything to limit screen time for anyone that wasn't her.

Odd, then, that frequent scene partners like Martha Byrne and Scott Bryce speak so highly of her.

[quote] I know from experience that the opposite was true. She did everything to limit screen time for anyone that wasn't her. (especially Matthew the butler.)

Anyone who watched the show knows that is completely untrue.

What went so wrong in your life that you so desperately need attention?

Liz was probably complicated, and greedy for screen time, as all actors are.

99 percent of what she said on the Locher Room she did with Martha was so smart and sharp. But I was shocked when she said Lucinda had no story. She may not have been Lily Walsh, but Lucinda was so central to the show for so many years. She certainly had more airtime than some of the other actresses in her age range.

yeah, I'm sure that she had a lengthy career on soaps but limiting folks screen time. (Rolls eyes.)

JANE! Get in her!

The adlibs she threw under-fives and day players gave them more tape.

I can imagine a veteran actor of a certain ago like her being frustrated with what happened in daytime, as they were hellbent on chasing young viewers.

I worked on the show in the early 90s and every summer we had a network mandate to focus on youth. Honestly, those tended to be the weakest characters/stories.

When you’re playing a rich character who is capable of complex storytelling, it must be infuriating to watch them expend some much screen time on young airheads.

R168 — “…he played a character on a fictional series…”

Oh, dear.

I’ve been on the phone with an old friend of mine. She and I and one other friend (who is recently departed) would watch ATWT (and AMC) together in high school and college, 1984- 1988 or so. We were laughing at some of our favorite unscripted moments from Liz that we still remember, and it made us sad about her and our friend. He was a HUGE Liz fan.

One that she and I say to each other almost every time we see each other, is “(gasp)…KNOCKOUT!!” It was the tail end of a scene where Samantha Markham opened the door to find her long-lost half-sister, Lucinda. It was obvious they were just supposed to stare at each other, and then fade to black..but Liz had to be Liz and throw in that hilarious little ad-lib. It was after college and after we had stopped watching every day, but somehow we all three were together and caught that scene. It’s given us almost 30 years of laughs. Very bittersweet emotions today.

There was a scene on You Tube from 1987 or so. Lily has run away after learning her parentage and Sabrina is having problems fitting in with anybody but Frannie’s fiance Seth.

Lucinda had just given Kim a talk show on her TV station, and they shared a nice scene about parenting.

Also, right after Susan slept with Bob, John and Lucinda show up at the Hughes house to discuss Andy. Kim is distracted. After they leave Lucinda turns to John and tells him something is going on in that house and that Kim is behaving weird, and he tells her she is crazy.

[quote] they are considered by many to be the two greatest actors ever to grace Daytime, and you'll never take that away from them.

Fuck off.

"The only ones who seemed to hold their own with her were Martha Byrne, Scott Bryce and to a lesser degree Tom Wiggin."

Larry Bryggman didn't "hold his own" with her??? And I would argue that Marie Masters and Kathleen Widdoes did, too.

/run

/spicenbgone

I don’t agree r228. We got to see Lucinda’s past and pain-her family was torn from her (Sierra taken away; husbands dying; mother taking off and leaving her in favor of Royce and Neal’s father) and it led to her going overboard trying to protect the daughter who she raised, Lily.

I thought her work in particular with Mary Kay Adams was stellar. I wanted them to kill off Royce instead of Neal.

[quote]Someone better check on Lady Wyndham.

You take that back. Don't even speak it into existence.

Rachel?

What about me....DADDY!!!!!

I googled Elizabeth Hubbard and Bethel Leslie and ended up with this 1972 New Yorker article - “Afternoon Television: Unhappiness Enough, and Time”

My goodness, but this sounds juicy!

[quote]My happiest moment on any of the soaps I have watched with anything like constancy occurred some years ago, when Andrea Whiting, of “Search for Tomorrow,” cracked up on the witness stand. Her villainy had been relentless, undiscovered, pathological for years. She had broken the engagement of her son, Len Whiting, to Patti Tate. She had refused to divorce her estranged husband, Sam Reynolds, so that he could marry his true love, Joanne Tate, Patti’s mother and the program’s heroine. Andrea Whiting had been responsible, many years before, for the death by fire of Len’s twin. She had blamed the death on her husband, Sam, thereby estranging Sam the father from Len the son. She had tried to kill several people in the intervening years—most recently Sam—but she had contrived to make it look as though Sam had been trying to kill her… Anyway, under questioning by Doug Martin, Andrea cracked up. The truth about the fire death came out, the truth about everything came back, in flashbacks spanning years. Andrea was carried off.

R219, I wouldn't want to put any shade on the dead, especially Liz, but yes, she told me personally about Doug preferring to write for the kids.

Doug himself said in an interview he loved putting Liz Lucinda in the prologue b/c the show would get off to a great start.

I imagine her comments might have been rooted in missing her youth. We all get old. She was nothing short of magnificent on screen...but she was human too. Kids are kids. Lucinda got to sleep with Craig and flirt with him endlessly. How that couldn't make her happy as an actress in her late 40s and 50s is beyond me. But...as I said, she was human.

[quote][R236], that Andrea Whiting summary did sound interesting. I wonder, did NBC pay to have that article written and placed in the New Yorker magazine? The article prominently mentioned Another World, Days of Our Lives, and The Doctors from NBC, and Search for Tomorrow--which was on CBS at the time. I don't think any of the ABC soaps were mentioned, and Guiding Light was mentioned basically as a side note.

In 1972 the NBC daytime lineup was on fire. Days, Doctors, and AW were the hottest soaps and remained pretty hot for a few more years. It is not surprising that the article featured those 3. I want to say that 1972 was the year that ATWT, the top rated soap began to falter. I think they even brought back Irna Phillips who wrote a bunch of old fashioned stories that forced PG to fire her the next year.

[quote]I remember the summer of 2020 when La Hubbard absolutely scandalized Datalounge and the P&G Queens with those comments about Douglas Marland. People were floored by her criticism of Marland as a writer overly interested in youth and the young characters on the canvas..

Doug Marland was a very good soap writer, but Doug Marland was also a human being with flaws. A lot of soap fans have put Marland on pedestal. He got it right more often than not, but there were still times when he didn't (watch his version of The Doctors for proof of this). I think Hubbard gave a fair and valid criticism from her perspective. I think those types of criticisms are important to get the whole picture of person. And the stories that have come out about Marland in the last few years, have made him a far more interesting person.

I am still shocked at how they white-washed Bill Bell's career in his book.

I've said this before here, but while Bill Bell, Pete Lemay, Agnes, even Pam Long had an identifiable sort of style, I don't know that Marland did. Marland's gift was an ability to look at the existing canvas and identify opportunities to stir things up or make it better without tearing the show apart.

I don't think that was always his way, since he was pretty soundly criticized for what happened at The Doctors. (Or was it SFT?) He was able to do more at GH because there was such an open canvas there, and his characters still sort of took over the show at GL, but with at least some inclusion of the veterans. ATWT really was the best of his work - it was next level.

That doesn't mean he was perfect. He had a few favorite stories he used/overused. It took a while for him to get his mojo back after his three female leads left - a lot of the show between late 88 and, oh, the Bob/Kim/Susan story was dire. Some of it was just sad, some of it boring, some of it was moving the pieces around for the next stories, but yeah. Shannon and the Harrington brothers, ugh. (And I loved Shannon. How do you make that character boring?)

Marland destroyed The Doctors and started it on its long path to death with an endless array of HW teams. Whereas the Pollocks' and even DePriest's stints before him were entertaining and full of energy, and concentrated mostly on hospital stories, Marland veered the show off of the hospital setting and shoved the boring Dancys down viewers' throats and stretched out stories way past their sell-by date. The show lost all vitality and started to seem old and stodgy,

I think his best writing was at GL. It was such an intelligently written show under his pen, and still holds up really well. I know people love Pam Long and her homey and sentimental writing, and the show was mostly entertaining under her, but honestly, the show dropped several IQ points between his stint and hers. It's pretty evident when you sample episodes from both regimes on YT.

Doug had a gift for populating an expansive universe (30+ contract players and a large number of significant recurring characters) conducive to years of character-driven conflict.

He did some great murder mysteries (Diane Ballard on GL was riveting).

He created so many distinctive characters over the years (Luke and Laura among them, right?).

So many head writers farm out as much as they can. Doug was spinning every episode himself (the other breakdown writers contributed ideas at the margins). It was mesmerizing to watch him work. He knew exactly where every story and scene was going and he dictated the dialogue (for script writers to elevate a bit, but again, it was mostly his voice).

Pam definitely engaged in character assassination with Vanessa. At least during her first tenure.

Turned that vivacious character who was naked underneath her fur coat into a pill popping suburban mom who ran over Reva in the snow while high on pills!?!?!?

Thank you, R263.

Hubbard is mesmerizing in that scene with Neal. I’d also forgotten how good Liz and Mary Kay Adams were together. Neal was so different than India (who was more like Lucinda) - MKA is amazing.

Talented ladies, nice memories.

That clip at r263…I had forgotten about Bianca! Or, as Liz ad-libbed once, “My little daughter from across the sea…”

I was not watching as much during this time, but did Bianca ever really have a storyline? How did they get rid of her? Did Lucinda ever mention her after she was gone?

Pam was much kinder to Vanessa during her second go-around.

Vanessa was OVER Alan fawning over Reva; Reva demanded Alan do something about Mirror reporter Dick Sexton slamming Rusty in a story.

Vanessa asked what Reva expected Alan to do and pointed out that not everyone was as partisan as she was in this situation. Reva's reaction was clear -- I'm pissed at you Vanessa and yes, you used a word I don't understand.

R279 Netherlands news source "nu.nl" had a feature on her death five days ago.

The story was also run by the daily newspaper, AD, Algemeen Dagblad (General Journal), ad.nl.

[quote]R277 Still waiting for Julia Duffy's statement.

From Seller’s Comments:

[italic]”This is an original press photo. Among the veterans of the ward wars on NBC's "The Doctors" are Elizabeth Hubbard (shown at left with a grimmer Julia Duffy)”

I'm going to kind of agree with R285.

First of all, I don't think it is some requirement to make a statement about someone's death, and sometimes no statement is statement enough. And, quite frankly, do you remember everyone that you've ever worked with?

I saw some interview that Jackee gave about her time on Another World. She commented that Connie Ford yelled at her for being in her sight line or something, but she could not remember Connie's name. She referred to her as the actress from A Summer Place.

I know it's a capital offense not to know who Connie Ford is on here, but in the real world not everyone knows or remembers everyone they've ever worked with, especially actors.

Helen Wagner gets pissed at Liz Hubbard and Mimi Torchin.

Mimi-“Lucinda has been in search of a storyline for awhile…”

Helen-“HAVEN’T WE ALL?”

Also Liz looks like she wants to eat Brad Snyder #1 alive.

Digest interviewed her about all that; she'd taken some time off around the time of Rauch's return to, I think, get a new hip.

I don't think Maeve ever got caught up in all that drama. She came in did the work and slowed down a bit as she got older.

I adored the relationship between Henry and Vanessa; it was easy to see the two actors were pals in real life. Henry and Vanessa, for some reason, showed me there was a better life out there. I don't know why. They were two of Doug Marland's best creations.

Hubbard fucked Brad 1 and 2 (Nick Kokotakis and Roy Eudon) and the scrumptious Brad 4 Austin Peck right before he got together with his married co-star. They proceeded to blow up each other’s lives.

What is Katie Peretti doing now? Real estate?

Maeve K leaving during Paul Rauch's GL run was the fuel of many rumors from the rumor mill....

...in part because it had long been rumored that Paul sexually harassed Maeve during her AW run.

And her GL departure was not long after Paul came on. I seem to recall she no longer wanted to dye her hair black, as well, and Paul refused to let her appear with gray hair.

[quote] What is Katie Peretti doing now? Real estate?

Terri Conn is still an on-air host for QVC. She was hawking summer dresses yesterday.

[quote] What is Katie Peretti doing now?

Cheating on her husband for Jesus?

Katie's snatch ate the show.

Well, most of it, and Carly and "Juicy Janet" ate what was left.

Some timeline things since after years (decades) it all blurs together and assumptions and errors start getting repeated as facts:

Maeve began a leave of absence from GL in August 1996 during the Laibson/McTavish horror show, supposedly to get herself out of the shit fest Wendy Moniz was flinging backstage. During her LOA that executive team was fired and replaced with the unholy triumvirate of Rauch/Esensten/Brown. He came in during her absence, she didn't leave because he was there. But, It WAS feared that Maeve would not return to the show with Rauch in charge, due to their history, but he swore he had changed and both parties thought the ugliness of years prior to be water under the bridge.

So, she returned to the show in May 1997 and got about 6 months of (not-great) story before she and Kurt McKinney (he played Matt) were sidelined for the emerging all Reva all the time hour, which began in September 1997, first with stripper Cassie's arrival followed by the clone that spring 1998. Maeve got minimal airtime doing and saying stupid shit, mainly in the way of taking constant abuse from Dinah about her miserable childhood.

When the Vanessa/Matt/Beth triangle played there were daily 'you're a hag get a facelift' comments from other characters, including talking to a plastic surgeon about fixing her sagging face, meanwhile Kim Zimmer looked like she'd spent the winter moonlighting as a sandbag and got lines about how Reva struck men down with her beauty. As a viewer, it was hard to feel like this stuff wasn't the result of some personal backstage crap.

It was for the second (third?) Josh/Reva wedding in 1999 that Vanessa showed up to the ceremony with blonde hair. As someone said it was during the Rauch blonde fetish years where everyone had platinum hair, wore neon-colored airline hostess suits, and had their tits out on display. Maeve herself has said she campaigned heavily during this time to go gray, but the producer (Rauch) wouldn't let her, until she finally wore him down.

She only got her way when she went off-contract and was coming in to film on recurring status. The story at the time was Vanessa's slow death from lip balm, where the character of Vanessa goes into a coma and lies in bed for 5 months. When Vanessa wakes up and realizes she'd shot Ben Warren, an all-gray Vanessa ends up confronting Carmen.

Maeve ultimately left the show a few months later in July 2000, when she walked off the set with no notice (none was required - she was recurring) after filming the Bauer BBQ.

Interesting about Maeve and even more interesting how producers can kill a show. Rauch's stories were legendary.

To me, the man wasn't all that. He was a character who knew how to turn up the lights brighter than his predecessor and he only did well when he had a great writer (Lemay).

We were lucky enough to have the Marland years 80 - 82 and Long years 83-86; 87-early 91 and some good years -- Reilly/Demorest/Curlee and Hurst at the end to take the show out as well as possible.

GL had Nola back to kiss Company goodbye and Holly and Fletcher and Danny and Michelle and Dylan...but ATWt couldn't give Lisa a happy ending or invite Penny back OR tape Helen Wagner saying goodnight dear as soon as they knew the show was axed. Sigh...

I have vague memories of the Dobson era on GL; that was great too.

But San Cristobel, the Santos clan, Reva clone, changing writers...they all killed Gl.

Don't gaslight me by being the tone police for calling out other people not being nice, r328.

MATTHEW? See this gentleman out.

Let's get some Liz clips going on.

Go to 1:47; Lucinda clears the room so she can have Craig all to herself.

She says Iva has the 'unmistakable aura of Las Vegas.'

[quote]Yes, she fucked Gregory Beecroft.

Are you serious? What a queen.

R337, it's one of mine, too.

Liz and Scott were FIRE.

[quote]Hardly nobody from ATWT commented.

Oh, dear.

R111, wow, thank you for your Blithe Spirit story. I was friends with Angela Thornton from around 1986 to her sudden death about six or seven years ago. I even rented a room in her gorgeous West End Avenue apartment for a few months.

Of course I knew that she and Elizabeth Hubbard were good friends but eiither I never asked Angela how they met or I’d forgotten. In the old 1970s episodes of The Doctors on Retro I diid see Angela in a recurring role as a British temptress. She was beautiful and extremely witty. Her son Adam Storke was the male lead in Mystic Pizza opposite Julia Roberts. I do remember that her friend Liz was always having “problems” with her son but he was all she had and she was devoted to him. Anyway, thanks again.

If I heard correctly, Julia Duffy did NOT participate in FAT moon gonna explode soon face Casey’s funeral for Liz Hubbard. Why?

Instead, desperate for attention Martha Byrne (what has she done lately????) was there. Fat exploding moonface Casey was all up in the ass of Martha. Disgusting.

R374 Mary Martha's husband was an NYPD cop, then in 2003, he "retired from the 43rd Precinct in The Bronx with a three-quarters, tax-free pension based on an unknown line-of-duty disability."

At some point, he went into private investigative work, but in 2020, he got himself into massive trouble and was actually arrested. I never researched what happened in this case. The original story made the NY Post.

Thing is, Byrne's husband was arrested and later inddicted when Trump's appointee, John Demers, was in office. Demers was the Trump Admin's Assistant Attorney General in charge of the DOJ's China Initiative to counter Chinese espionage and intelligence activities in the U.S. .. Demers is the one who crowed about the Trump DOJ's success to stamp out China's "Operation Fox Hunt." And the indictments that were subsequently prepared were all done under his watch, since he stayed in the job until June 2021 with them presented to the court in July.

=======

[quote] How right wing/conservative can she be, since she wholeheartedly embraced the whole Luke coming out story? A strict right winger wouldn't do that.

R378 Maybe Byrne is okay with Log Cabin Republicans. That would be the type of gay guy like Ric Grenell, whom she's seen in the photo with at R371.

Anyone skilled at looking up what happened with Martha’s hubby’s case?

What a moron she is.

R386 The husband was subsequently indicted in July 2021. Updates to the case in 2022 did not mention that charges were dropped. (I believe the case may still be ongoing. Some information is apparently sealed due to the nature of the case.)

His attorney claims he was unaware of who the real client was. This sounds somewhat believable, yet the article below from ProPublica points out, "Prosecutors would later dispute the idea that McMahon was an innocent pawn." I believe elsewhere it says they found internet searches on another similar Chinese government operation. Something like that.

Pretty good overview of the whole thing.

btw - His disability from the police force in 2003 stems from ailments related to his work as 9/11 Ground Zero responder.

A decade or so ago, Martha launched an enterprise designed to prep aspiring young actors in NJ to work in TV. Unsaid was that the only TV she knows is working in a genre that is disappearing.

I believe she enlisted Lisa Brown to help.

It had the whiff of something that makes me feel sad. You know, actress who can’t find work but is going to show others the secrets to finding work.

A friend of a friend had a kid wanting to act and he may have done an intro session or something. They wanted my opinion on whether he should pursue it.

I said Lisa would be great if the kid could learn acting from her. But otherwise, Martha (and Lisa) has no idea how to penetrate the main industry or else she’d have done it. She got a job as a teen that gave her employment for decades and nothing really beyond that.

And it had a nice price tag. They ended up passing on it. I don’t think the venture lasted that long.

It made me sad. Must be tough to be the belle of the ball for years and years and… suddenly the lights go out.

Ugh, that killed any respect I had for Martha.

I knew her husband was NYPD but didn't realize she'd gone SO far right. Fuck her.

Martha Byrne is DEAD to ME!

[quote]The husband was subsequently indicted in July 2021

You mean he was indicated?

Byrne acts like they don't even know what her husband is charged with. Maybe should just read the case text to find out. It's all there.

Last year he tried to get the charges dropped. The cast text at the link explains what the government says he did and his arguments to try to get the case against him dismissed.

SPOILER ALERT: Michael McMahon's motion to dismiss was denied in its entirety.

Viva Noelle Beck!

Viva Heather Rattray!

Booooooo on Fat Lily!

R391. those schools and programs are always hit and miss.

If you take it and nothing ever happens, it's a big miss; if you take it and then you end up finding work in show business, well, it's a hit.

Most people in show business find work through luck and long years of preparation.

No one class is going to find you work; you're going to learn from people in the trenches what their journey has been.

That's a great line about being the belle of the ball and then, the lights go out. I marvel at someone like Melody Thomas Scott who has played Nikki for over 40 years and half that time was under Bill Bell and everything was great -- lots of work. Melody inherited the prime dressing room that was Jaime Lyn Baur's after she left the show in 1982 (Cher had it built when she did her show) and has had it since.

Then you look at people who've come and go on other shows, gone and never come back to any show.

I imagine a career in show business is long and hard with no guarantees of rewards but educating yourself as much as you can -- if you can afford it -- is a good thing.

I meant to add the OTHER half of Mel's time at Y&R has been battling or surviving writers and producers who haven't a clue who Nikki is.

The MS they gave Nikki has all but been forgotten; she hasn't had real story in years. LML had her run for state senate. WTF?

But...she has survived.

Darlings!

This thread is about MOI!

[quote]I meant to add the OTHER half of Mel's time at Y&R has been battling or surviving writers and producers who haven't a clue who Nikki is.

I know this is about MTS, but I can't let this one slide. MTS made that set hell while her husband was running things. She got knocked down more than a few pegs when he left. And it wasn't a graceful fall.

What other daytime roles would have a good fit for Liz?

Iris Carrington? Stephanie Forrester? Alex Spaulding? Dorian Lord?

[quote]I know this is about MTS, but I can't let this one slide.

Then take it to the Y&R thread, dumbass.

R407 of the ones you mentioned, probably Stephanie Forrester would have been a good fit. Perhaps Dorian too.

Iris and Alexandra were perfect fits for Beverlee, Her characters had rough edges and both had the capacity to be a bitch, but Beverlee was also very good at showing an essential sadness/loss for both characters. Iris always felt like she had lost her "daddy" and Alexandra had lost her son/sons. I don't know that Liz could have portrayed that sense of hollowness and loss as well.

She would have also been great on Santa Barbara, as Augusta or perhaps Sophia.

She’d have made an amazing Alexandra Spaulding.

Or Kay Chancellor.

Of the remaining elder ATWT cast - with Kathy Hays and Liz gone:

Eileen Fulton (89, turns 90 in September) Don Hastings (turned 89 on April 1) Pat Bruder (turned 87 last week) Larry Bryggman (84) Kathleen Widdoes (84) Marie Masters (82)

Rosemary Prinz is 92 (!!)

Most of the front burner folks from the Marland era are in their sixties now. Some early seventies. Michael Swan is 75 (!) and Colleen just turned 70. Most of the others are in their late sixties. Jon Hensley is 57. Cuntarina von Magatstein (aka Martha) is mid fifties.

[quote]She had McCouch, Hensley, Hastings, and the dude who played the cop who died by suicide IRL. Also the Jewish kid who played Noah’s boyfriend.

Wait, did La Liz actually have all of these co-stars, or are you guys just trolling. She had Jon Hensley in his prime? Wow. And Ben Hendrickson too - ? I'm impressed.

[quote] or are you guys just trolling.

Obviously.

I liked Mary Beth as Sierra. I thought to be honest she was better than the one note Finn Carter. But agree she was seldom there long enough.

She was far more Sierra to me than either of the non-Byrne Lilys, who for all intents reinvented the character. (Of course ATWT did that a lot in its final years - slap a name on another actor who acted nothing like the character. Here's Paul Ryan! No, really it is. Here's Dusty Donovan! Even if he acts like Sonny Corinthos, it's Dusty!)

R425 Some soap fans are, uh, unusual in their pursuits and obsessions.

Like our Loon.

I watched this last night-what a terrible time for the show.

I kept thinking this scene would have been so much better with Melanie Smith and Hillary Bailey Smith.

Kelley Menighan’s Emily was really whiny.

The whole Lucinda/James thing was just.....I mean, I can almost understand the retcon of giving them a shared child IF that character had stuck around for longer than 3 seconds.

But the idea that Lucinda would marry James just insulted her intelligence. Yes, John Dixon was no saint. But he was not the deeply amoral villain James Stenbeck was.

1993 was 30 years ago.....and pretty much the year both ATWT and GL slowly started to crumble. Hard to believe that was SO long ago.

Pretty much the only time I could stomach Lily was when Heather Rattray and Nicole Beck played the character, even though I wasn’t watching as much when either of them were on. I guess I liked Byrne well enough her first couple of years, but she really started annoying me and was such a frau.

But I get it about ATWT’s bad track record with recasts. One of the worst cases was when Julianne Moore left the roles of Frankie and Sabrina—who looked so much alike that Seth couldn’t tell who he was fucking—and replaced both roles with actresses who had no resemblance whatsoever. It was nice seeing Claire Beckman land another soap gig after AMC, albeit a relatively brief one. She wasn’t bad as Sabrina, and was a least more “Julianne-ish” than the blond Frannie.

During the Marland era of ATWT- which actors were the most troublesome? Who was loved and who was loathed?

ATWT seemed to be a less harmonious set than, say, All My Children.

I worked on ATWT for a spell during the Marland years. Wasn’t aware of any acrimony.

There were some folks who kept to themselves or perhaps avoided those they didn’t like, but the show didn’t tolerate nonsense. You come and behave like a professional or you’re off the show.

I think any set is what you make it. I know actors who love DAYS and say it's the best ever; others run from the show faster than you can spell New Salem backwards.

The big problem is when you start believing all that 'our show is a family' or 'is family-like'.

Come in, do your work, pose for a cake photo if it's on a day that you're working, and then go home and have a life.

R456, but if the goal is to provide info to your readers, then reporters need to get on the phone and do their jobs.

One of the sites -- I forget which one -- got Lisa Brown to comment on Michael Tylo. Not too long after, she was gone to.

I think SOD ran a social media quote from Kate Linder re: Tylo. If Esther and Blade ever shared a scene I must have missed it.

The fact that Digest is still in business shocks me. I'm surprised it hasn't gone exclusively online.

[quote]ATWT seemed to be a less harmonious set than, say, All My Children.

I always heard that the AMC set was messy at varying times, but didn't two actresses come to blows or almost to blows over some kind of a backstage affair over on ATWT?

ATWT was a pretty calm set.

R458 yes, Hillary B. Smith (then Margo) and Colleen Zenk (Barbara) apparently came to blows - this would have been around the time of their characters' big fight, when Tom slept with Barbara. HBS had something to say about Colleen and Mark Pinter getting together and the slapfest happened.

HBS and Catherine Hickland were shitstirrers at OLTL too.

I really want to hear stories of Helen Wagner’s cuntery.

Maybe something about her grabbing the arm of some young actress and lecturing her on dressing like a prostitute.

here's the episode where Margo slaps Barbara.

It sure looks and sounds like a real slap.

Babs wanted Margo not to tell Bob, Kim, and Lisa about her fling with Tom (ironically, Babs only wanted Tom to THINK he'd slept with her; he had not).

Casey walks in (who could have dreamed Margo would pull the plug on him in a little over 4 years? Babs makes an innuendo that Margo and Casey are fucking. Margo slaps Barbara in the face.

This was classic Marland and the clip they showed at the 1986 Daytime Emmys that July; eligibility periods used to go from March to March and this scene is from March 1986 so it's entirely possible it was the actual clip submitted.

Oddly, Doug never won for writing ATWT. That year, Bill Bell won for writing Y&R -- but the victory was short-lived. NATAS's tabulation firm made a colossal error. The real winner was Pam Long for GL. Again, not sure if the clip shown was the winner but the video was of Reva blasting Vanessa after she remembered that she caused Reva's miscarriage while zonked out on pills.

"H.B.! Our baby was a miracle and we're never going to have another one!" My mom always got a laugh out of that line.

[quote]Michael Corbett was pretty damn hot!

Is he a gay?

Have any of our soap queens seen this (White Girl in Danger)?

Scroll towards the end to where the playwright recaps the Iva-Lily-Lucinda-Holden story for the director of his play. Never thought I'd see that in the New Yorker.

In the Christmas Eve episode fro 1985 (!) nearly 40 years ago, Lily chastises Holden for dragging his wet shoes into the Walsh living room. It's a contrast to later, Lily dragging HER wet boots into the Snyder kitchen.

The silent look on Holden's face spoke volumes.

Later in the show, cut back to Lucinda coming into her living room and she looks down at the carpet in disgust! (Ugggh!)

Liz read the whole script, I guess.

Lucinda's butler, "Matthew" (seen in the clip at R474) is still a handsome guy.

In L.A., He still acts on occasion, but primarily works as an editor. He even earned a Daytime Emmy nomination in the multi-camera category for his work on "Passions" and served as the editor for the documentary on that soap produced in 2019.

[quote] She seemed like she craved cock especially young cock. I wonder if she had a much younger bed friend who serviced her.

Some of you DESPERATELY need to leave the house more.

[quote]Some of you DESPERATELY need to leave the house more.

This has turned into such a dull cliche on DL.

Scott is a class act.

It's easy to stand by a friend when they're in the right.

Your TRUE friends will stand by you in difficult times.

There was a scene once in 1986 when Craig told Lucinda he was leaving town; he'd had enough; Lily BURST into tears and said that she didn't want Craig to leave because he'd been the closest thing to a father she'd ever had after her father died by suicide.

Lucinda, upon hearing this, let out a sympathetic 'OH, Baby!"

She was in her early fifties when she was hired, R493.

Look, I'm sure Martha's husband is "conservative", or whatever, but I think he's being honest when he says he didn't know he was working for the Chinese government. What idiot would contact the local police and tell them where he was and what he was doing if he were knowingly engaging in work that violated federal law? What idiot would allow the the feds to question him without a lawyer and hand over his cell phone, no questions asked? This guy was a law enforcement agent. He wouldn't have done ANY of those things if he were guilty.

There is no way he won't get off on appeal.

The bald one is hot.

The one Liz says something to about lipstick.....looks impressively like Martha.

the bald one is indeed hot.

I love how LIz's characters could just dismiss people.

She was a legend.

Lucinda tried to give Josh Rod a check for saving Lily from James Stenbeck and he ripped it up without even looking at the amount. He informed Lucinda that someday she'd learn money can't buy everything -- including his love for Lily.

Lucinda, on some level impressed by poor Josh Rod says, "Well, you've come a long way, baby. From rapist to hero...to TEACHER!" Then she said while grateful to him for saving Lily she said her feelings over him raping Iva weren't going to ever change.

How did the actors REALLY feel about Liz adlibbing constantly?

Here, she tells a somber Barbara, who's going off to jail, that she shouldn't sell Simply Barbara to her.

"Darling, Simply Barbara without Barbara simply wouldn't be Simply Barbara."

This was Billy's mom's last episode.

Lisa stopped her at the door to keep her from going over to Tom's so he and Margo could have a reunion.

Lisa said something like 'I'm going to break both your legs; you're a doctor; you know how much that will hurt."

the next day, Kim and Lisa were dishing about how Taylor up and left her job.

Billie's mom knew she was gone probably. Can't blame her for not having holiday cheer.